U.S. Army Alice Pack Review

"This pack is ok if you dont mind getting sores on your back. Seriously though, if your going on a week long packing adventure DO NOT use this pack, you WILL regret it and your back will hate you because of it. Think about it, if its such an awsome pack then why has the Army and Marine Corps stopped using it?"

"The U.S. Army alicepacks are great packs. The packs are inexspensive,durable, and also practical. The packs hold a good amount of stuff. My father and i both use the U.S. Army alicepacks. You can clip your u.s. Army canteen and strap your sleepingbag on to the alicepack. You can also get an external frame for the U.S. Army alice pack."

"Army backpacks are cool, although I would have to say I prefer the smaller model- The large one extends a little too far behind, throwing balance off in my opinion. The army issues you the smaller one along with a kick in the balls, although you have to return it when you leave service. (Not the kick in the balls, they send you to the pokey for returning that. Trust me.)"

"well ive carried a large ALICE for 4.5 years with over 70 #'4 in it (J.R.T.C. '00) Used it in Alaska at over 40 below and also in the jungle (Philippine's). It has some weaks points> 1, the webbing wear the ruck attaches to the frame( lower) will tear under load, so sew a big patch over it and install heaver straps 2, never pick up your ruck by the upper shoulder pad, it will tear in the center. 3, put a zipper in the bottom of the dam thing, then put a wet weather bag in it upside down now it is easier to get at stuff that would normally be in the bottom. any thing else you can just clip on the side.


JMAD"

"Have carried the large alice pack for many years the true problem is that as they age the fabric gets brittle and rips easily. Also under considerable loads over 100 lbs the center vertical support member breaks the rivet loose;however, the availability of repair parts is wide and inexpensive. I would recommend this pack or any version that is offered. Small, medium, or large. The first reviewer made mention of other gear wearing the pack simply lower the other web gear and raise your load to accomodate the wear problem. For more versatility the medium pack offers a frameless option,the large does not however with a little sewing the large will accept the frameless option. Definitly find an old soldier or marine and listen for awhile about the best ways to utilize the attatchment points, and alice products offered."

"I've used the large ALICE for a couple of years now, and love it. It is a bit awkward in that it sticks out behind you just a bit too far, but you can always arrange your gear and tighten the pack straps closer. The volume of this pack is unprecidented, something like 8,000 cubic inches. If you need more than that, well, jeezum crow. The pack is relatively cheap, and is basically no-frills, which I love. Too many of today's "yuppie packs" are covered with bells and whistles that jack the price up, and are ultimately unecessary. The external frame is nice because of the space left between the pack and your back, leaving nice ventilation on hot days. It is also easy to repair. You can attach or clip just about anything to it or it's frame. There's an attachment that you can get for about $14 that hooks onto the bottom. You can hook many more items onto that. Like I said, the only thing that bugs me slightly is that it's bulk protrudes far out behind you, which can knock you off balance if you're clumsy. This is not a rock-climbing pack. Enjoy."

"Heavy, poorly-designed, and sheer torture to use. These packs were designed back when the competition was the old WWII packframe and the Swiss Army rucksack of the 1940s. Materials and technology have thankfully advanced since then, but some people who should know better still recommend these packs to the uninitiated.

With their rigid, inflexible and heavy aluminum frame, and packbags hanging far behind the wearer, these ALICE packs aren't suitable for backpacking over rough terrain. The packbags are equally heavy, slow to access with their strap closures, and they aren't waterproof, either. Straps are Vietnam era - redundant metal hardwear and thin padding. For the same capacity, you can buy a modern frame pack with a much better fit that weighs a good deal less.

Finally, since the U.S. military has stopped ordering these packs, current production frames and packs are coming from cheapo importers, and quality has declined to nearly zero. Don't be surprised if your Alice frame pops a rivet or two on your first trip out!"

"Sure the alice pack is heavier than most modern packs. But it will far outlast most commercial packs. Mine was already pretty well used when I picked it up from the supply depot on Camp LeJeune in 1990. Since I "forgot" to turn it in when I was discharged you can't beat the price. The fact that I have used it at least one weekend a month for the past 14 years and have never had to repair anything more than a busted buckle attests to its durability. The multiple attachment points are nice so that you can configure it to suit whatever type of gear you might be taking. With a few surplus pouches you can carry anything you might need within reason."

"Folks, as one who is still serving, the rucksack has to go. It is outdated, cheaply made, and not very practical. The Army is still searching for the right pack design to accomodate all body sizes. They have tried it with the new MOLLE system, but still it has problems, though it is a better solution."

"My medium ALICE with frame has been to the summit of Mt. Whitney, the peak featured in your photo to the right.
Reliable pack, no wet back problems like with my internal frame pack. Sleep bag easy to attach and access, unlike my internal frame pack. No head interfearance from pack frame, unlike my internal frame pack. No zipper hang-ups cause there are none, unlike internal frame packs. I agree, the load is not as close as an internal frame pack. I do not want the load that close for long distance packpacking."

"The All-Purpose Lightweight Individual Carrying Equipment, or ALICE, pack, is part of a fairly successful attempt to field one type of gear for America's Armed Forces. The ALICE pack was designed by people who would not be using it in a time when draftees could be ignored. If it's all you have, then you'll use it. I found it to be viciously uncomfortable to the point of causing debilitating pain unless I wore it over body armor.

It does one thing very well, carrying awkward and heavy loads, especially when equipped with the cargo shelf and straps. So equipped, a Soldier can be used as a pack animal and carry a 5-gallon water or fuel can; a box of rations; boxes of ammunition or similar load by removing the rucksack. A hunter can carry something like antlers of a deer. I keep one in my long term survival kit just for this reason.

Up to 70 pounds can be carried like this by fit, trained Soldiers or Marines daily. Up to 100 pounds can be carried on what is called an "approach march", carrying everything you'll need for battle when you know you won't be resupplied.

The ALICE pack should be fitted with extra padding on the shoulder straps and waist strap. This will make the load less painful and reduce the nagging aches and pains.

If you have a choice, buy something else."

"It's ugly, it's not exactly lightwieght, but on the other hand, if you organize your gear right, you can be fairly comfortable, you could fit a small child into the thing, and by the time you damage the frame, you'll be dead."

"The worst backpack I've ever encountered. Take it from any soldier who has done a forced march at 4mph pace or faster. The greatest downfall of this pack is it's lack of stability. A pack should 'stick' to your back with a minimum of shifting back and forth with each step. No matter how well you place the load or how well you strap it down, the ALICE will always swing back and forth, forcing you to waste energy trying to keep your body aligned and moving forward.
Now if you want a GOOD army backpack, get the SPF-90."

"I’ve used an ALICE pack since 1977. I have both the medium and large packs along with three frames. I spent most of my Army time in Special Forces and have come to love the ALICE packs. It’s important to specify which ALICE pack you are talking about and how you have it rigged.

First, most people don’t understand the design requirements that the ALICE gear was subjected to. It is COMBAT gear, not weekend camping gear. It has to be tough and be able to take the abuse that soldiers will give it. It has to work with a person wearing Load Bearing Equipment (LBE) meaning a pistol belt with suspenders, ammo pouches, canteens etc. Put on your LBE and try on ANY civilian rucksack and tell me that it is comfortable. It won’t be, especially if you have a butt pack on your pistol belt. If it is comfortable, then the civilian backpack is way too small!

The ALICE packs are very strong and durable. They can carry lots of gear. I like the top entry design. Simple. No zippers to break!

The medium ALICE pack can be used with the ALICE frame or without it. Without the frame it snugs up nicely to the body (no sway issues!). With the frame it is away from the body and can sway a bit if not loaded correctly. The medium ALICE was designed to carry loads of up to 50 pounds. With loads of 35 pounds and under I don’t use the frame, over 35 pounds I use the frame. The medium ALICE was made in OD green and woodland camouflage colors.

The large ALICE pack was designed to carry loads of 85 pounds. It can ONLY be used with the ALICE frame. I’ve carried them with a lot more and parachuted with them loaded to the gills. Never had a failure. The large ALICE was only made in OD green.

The Army never made a SMALL ALICE pack. The ones you see on ebay are civilian inventions.

There are two major design faults with the ALICE packs:

1. Not enough outside pockets.
2. Only one size frame.

The first problem with not enough pockets is easily solved. There are companies out there that will add external pockets to the backpack. I had my large ALICE modified in 1990 at Ft. Bragg and it was the best money I ever spent. I’m having more done to it right now by US Tactical Supply.

http://www.ustacticalsupply.com/alicepacks.shtml

A desirable modification is to replace the strap buckles with FASTEX quick release fasteners that everyone uses today. This alone makes it seem like a new backpack!

There is no easy solution for the single size frame. It was designed for a person who is 70 inches tall. I’m 71.5 inches tall and the frame fits me well (maybe I just got used to it!). If you are over 74 inches tall the frame may feel too small. If you are 65 inches tall or less the frame is way too big for you. You could have the frame cut down but there is no way to make it taller. I’ve seen ALICE packs adapted to civilian frames for a better fit.

http://www.arucsystems.com/aliceadapter.htm


The ALICE frame also has a reputation for being prone to failure and being heavy. I disagree. I’ve seen a few frames pop a rivet (after a parachute jump) and I have bent a few frames as well. I just used a rubber mallet to straighten out the bends when I got home. You can drill out a popped rivet with a 7/32” drill bit and use a 10-32 stainless steel bolt (one inch long is fine) to repair it. Use Lock-Tite on the nut and a locking washer. If you are not jumping out of airplanes, the ALICE frame is plenty strong.

The only activity I ever did that the ALICE pack was a problem for me was alpine skiing. The pack just sits up too high to ski effectively. While it can be skied with, I preferred to use a mountain rucksack that was modified to carry military gear. The backpack I choose for mountain skiing was a YakPak made in Seattle WA in the early 1980’s. I did not wear LBE when I skied with the YakPak.

If you are going to be using the ALICE for extended hiking invest in upgraded straps and a better kidney pad. US Tactical sells upgraded “Super” straps with a sternum strap that are the ticket.

The ALICE packs are not waterproof. You need to take precautions to keep gear dry. I like the Outdoor Research HydroLite Dry Sacks. I use three bags to keep clothes, sleep gear, and electronics dry. The other items just go in regular stuff sacks, in ZipLock Freezer Bags for dryness or organization.

http://www.orgear.com/home/style/home/storage/storage_stuffsacks/HLS

Overall, I give the ALICE packs a 4 star rating. When properly fitted and adjusted, the packs are great. Add a few modifications they are terrific!


Tony Oresteen
Montverde, FL"

"It was a great pack that served its purpose, now it's time to play with something new that everyone will complain about in 15-20 years. Still a solid pack that gives you the most bang for your buck."

"I love by ALICE! this backpack is my far the best backpack I ever owned. Unless you grab a knife or something sharp and go at it, you are not going to damage this ruck period. Is as close to bulletproof as it can get.
It has a very simple design. One main compartment, (very roomy, you can literally carry loads and loads in it). Three huge pockets on the outside (combined these and you have almost as much room as the pain pouch)
Durability? Well, I am still to see anything in the market that comes even close to the ALICE. Go buy your self one, you’ll see what I mean."

"I’ve read many reviews on the ALICE pack, as well as reviews on lots of commercially available packs and gear. I thought I would share my experiences with this and other packs for those who care to read through this review. When I started hiking, I didn’t know a thing about backpacks, rucksacks; internal frames, external frames, ultra light packs, on trail, off trail, climbing, etc. etc. etc. It was all Greek at the time. I shoot 4 X 5 large format photography, and I needed a pack to carry my camera, tripod, film holders, food, water, sleeping bag, bivy sack… GEAR for 3 to 5 day hikes.

When I began my search for a pack, several friends I work with recommended the military surplus ALICE pack. I was correctly informed about the ruggedness of this pack. Wow, were they right. You just can’t kill it. I wore the pack several times out on the trail carrying my gear when I encountered a phenomenon I had not been informed of… trail fashion. Needless to say, the old ALICE isn’t quite as pretty as the commercial grade packs. So I went shopping.

I stopped by our local outdoor store to inquire about packs. They recommended the Lowe Pro Trekker for photography. After looking this pack over carefully and trying it on in the store, I thought ‘Wow, this is going to be great’. So I bought it took it home and planed a trip to the AT for two days. Once on the trail, things just didn’t work out. The pack was great in terms of protecting my camera, but rough as HELL on me. I sweat like a pig, and that pack exacerbated the situation. When I returned home, I returned the pack to the store with my horror stories from the weekend. They refunded my purchase with an ‘in store’ credit. The sales person recommended that I research the subject further, then come back to select a pack.

I had planned a five mile hike along the sheltowee trace (www.sheltoweetrace.com) the next weekend, so I picked up Miss ALICE and off we went. The pack worked well as expected. The large distance from the frame to my back meant less sweat, more comfort. Again, not pretty, but workable.

After reading more on the subject of backpacking and gear, I decided that an external frame pack would be the best choice of offerings for my purposes. Returning to our local outdoor store, I again was approached by the sales person who led me around the bend to the sexy internal frame packs. I politely informed them that I really didn’t think this was the best approach to my requirements, but through the persuasion of sales, I was swayed in the direction of internal frame packs anyway. I tried on 12 different internal frame packs that day and finally settled on a Gregory. The sales guy loaded it with dead weights and tuned the pack to my torso stating that this would be a first rate pack for my needs. I told them that I wanted to be able to return the pack if it did not work for me. They agreed provided that I kept the pack in good condition. The next day I took the pack around my neighborhood (looking like an alpine idiot) testing it out. Two weeks later I was on the trail. The first day out, it felt fine. The second day... Sheer torture. This was my first encounter with the loading sensitivity of an internal frame. If they are not loaded correctly, they carry very differently. When I got home, I returned the pack to the store for another ‘in store’ credit. I was promptly informed that I was picky!

The following weekend I was on the trail again with… Miss ALICE. It worked fine, however I kept telling myself that the commercial packs were the real answer to my outings. So when I returned home, I read more reviews and went shopping again. This time I was determined to try the external frame pack. I purchased a Kelty Super Tioga. That pack wore very well. Excited about the purchase, I was on the trail the following weekend with this pack. I had the pack loaded to the gills with 70 lbs. of gear. Everything was going great until… I came to a fallen tree. I couldn’t go over it as it was too high. I couldn’t get under it as the pack would snag the tree. Extremely dense brush kept me from going off trail to get around the tree. I had to remove the pack and crawl under the tree dragging the pack on the ground snagging a root. This, in turn, caused the lower pocket to tear. I whipped out my needle and dental floss, unloaded the pack, repaired the tear, reloaded the pack and put it back on. Whata Bitch! I also noticed that the pack, riding above my head, tended to catch low hanging brush and tree limbs. I hated it! I had encountered fallen trees with the ALICE, but it was easy to get under them as the pack rides at shoulder height. So I returned home with a beat up pack that I could not return to the store. Four weeks later, I was on the trail again… with Miss ALICE.

About this time, I read that updating the suspension straps of the ALICE pack would improve the comfort, fit and ride of the pack. So I purchased an updated suspension system from Pack Masters (www.freezedryguy.com). I spoke with the owner of Pack Masters, a career Army Ranger. He gave me a number of pointers to improve the pack in general and how to make full use of the Pack Masters suspension system. A week later, I was back on the trail with the new straps and belt. Wow, now it was getting really comfortable. I mean comfort like the commercial packs I had tried. I carried the ALICE for the next year with the updated straps. It just kept going.

Once again, a friend (belittling my ALICE pack) recommended that I consider one of the new internal frames with improved cooling, so I again went shopping. I purchased a $250.00 top of the line pack. The first day on the trail, the zippers blew out. I returned the pack, the store exchanged it and the next weekend, I was on the trail again. The zippers blew out again! I returned this pack to the store for a refund and was told that I had not packed it correctly. I then demonstrated to the manager how I had packed my gear, and the owner agreed that the zippers should not have blown out under those conditions. They refunded the money, and again, I picked up Miss ALICE.

About this time I learned that ‘The Tactical Tailor’ (www.tacticaltailor.com) could modify my large ALICE pack with more pockets etc. So I sent the ruck to them. Wow, what a difference that made. As issued, the pack is 3800 cu. In. With the ruck mods I requested, it comes in at approximately 5200 cu. In. The old metal straps were replaced with Fastex buckles making access to the outer pockets easier. The great thing about these configuration changes was that I could store more gear in the outside pockets for fast access without entering the main pack until I get to the camp site. It’s a very handy arrangement. Three weeks after these rucksack mods were made, I was on the trail again hiking Thunder Head in the Smokey Mountains. What was an OK pack to get by on was slowly becoming an outstanding pack to do nearly anything I required.

Several friends who were in service have shown me a number of tips over the years. The pack is not water proof. To get around this, I place a black trash bag inside the main compartment of the pack. Load my gear into the trash bag, tie a knot in the top and close the pack. In the outer pockets, I use glad bags to keep gear dry. Soon after learning how this was done, I was hiking along the New River in Virginia. We needed to cross the river, but it was 12 miles upstream to the bridge. I had been told that one could swim with the ALICE if the gear was tied up in bags, as this affords floatation to the pack. I decided to give it a try. It worked great and saved about 9 miles of excess walking not to mention a cool bath on a hot day. Nothing inside the bags got wet. I’ve never seen anyone do anything like this with a civilian pack.

My pack has been stood on, beat on, sat on, dropped in rivers, swam on and generally abused. Using the cargo shelf, I’ve removed the rucksack and bungeed our cooler to the frame and carried it over two miles. I’ve gathered and carried fire wood on the frame during camping trips. I’ve carried everything imaginable, from winter camping gear to most recently baby gear. I’ve carried anywhere from 20 lbs. to 80 lbs. in and on this pack. It’s suffered from dirt, briars, brambles, pollen, etc. A quick trip through the washing machine has taken care of that.

Things I like:

1. Durable… Bomb proof is a better way to look at it.
2. External pockets. More pockets can be added and really enhances the pack.
3. External attachment points
4. Can carry heavy loads with no changes in carry characteristics.
5. Carries at shoulder height rather than at or above ones head, thus reduces pack snags.
6. Gear loading is not as critical as with internal frame packs.
7. It’s a general purpose pack.

Things I don't like:

1. Somewhat heavier than civilian packs.
2. The issue straps (suspension) are junk. It’s the only weak point to the system.

One observation / gripe I have with most of the commercially available gear offered today is that it is so very specialized. There is precious little offered on the market that is general purpose gear. The ALICE does this job well. Most of the critics of the ALICE system are correct in the observations made of the pack. However, they were probably never taught (or never learned) how to tune the ALICE to work for them. Over time, I’ve updated the pack and learned how to get it to work well for me, and I know how to adjust it on the fly when I have to go off trail, run, climb short distances, etc. To be fair, I have not given up on finding the wonder pack that may be on the market. There must be one somewhere. That said; until I find the critter, I’ll stick with Miss ALICE."

"The Marine Corps ditched both the ALICE and the MOLLE in favor of the ILBE. The ILBE is essentially a modified Arc'teryx Bora 95."

"Listen guys...this is a pack made for vietnam style patrolling. I finished the SF Q course a few months ago, and being a commo guy my ruck was over 125 pounds. It bent the frame but so what, this is the only ruck that can handle that type of abuse with such ease. I would definetly suggest getting the tactical tailor version of it, though. tacticaltailor.com"

"Well I must say, if you read all the reviews, its mostly positive. As is my review. Large A.L.I.C.E. pack is the only way to fly. Accompanied by the web gear, you have it all, convieniently seperated in priority.
Obviously the enhanced butt pack will tango with your sleepingbag and so you need to make a decision there. Otherwise, its a no brainer. So ask yourself, should I spend hundreds for a good pack that I'm not really sure about, or should I choose one that has been worn by thousands and proven in battle, where durability, egress, and function are everything? like I said, no brainer."

"The ALICE is by far the most versatile and rugged pack I have ever owned. I have jumped, climbed, hiked, and skiied with it. I have even used it as a flotation device. Can any civilian pack claim that? While it is true that the issued straps/kidney pad can be uncomforatble on long hikes, this is easily alleviated by purchasing an updated suspension system from any number of reputable manufacturers. Additionally, you can add pockets and attachment systems that personalize the ALICE for relatively little money.

During my time in service, I have had the distinct displeasure of being a test subject for a number of "new" pack systems to include the MOLLE, MOLLE II, and ILBE. I have had those systems fail me time and again. They are not able withstand repeated punishment or excessive loads and the proclivity of the manufacturers to use plastic clips and buckles only adds to the problem. In particular, the ILBE (patterned off a civilian pack), is nearly impossible to make comfortable while wearing plates, chest harness, and helmet. Even when worn alone, it is uncomfortable and very hot. Many of the civilian packs I have tried suffer from the same problems. Getting loads to balance properly can also be a problem with many commercial packs. Because the packs lay "flat" against the body, any misshapen object or poorly packed gear tends to dig into your back. Also, while many hikers seem to like the weight to rest on their waste by use of the often oversized waistbelts, I find that being able to carry the weight higher on the back distrubutes the load much more comfortably.

The ALICE system is probably still the best all-around pack available if you are willing to put the effort into making the recommended modifications. The ALICE pack has my highest recommendation. Buy one and you'll save yourself much money and frustration."