Bibler Customer Service Review

"Here is a story of my experience dealing with Bibler (recently bought-out by Black Diamond) which I would like to share with anyone considering buying a Bibler tent / product.

I purchased my Bibler Awhanee two years ago, after a nine month fanatical period of research into the best all-in-one tent I could purchase. I read every catalog blurb, every magazine review, and every internet posting I could find, and compared dozens of makes and models.

After this search, I came up with the Bibler Awhanee. I must admit, I loved this tent, and not just because it cost me over $700, but because the design and construction were absurdly well thought out and executed. It is a true four season tent, and was supposed to weigh-in at 5 lbs 4 oz (more on this later).

To make a long story long (I must be thorough to be fair), over a year ago, I sadly setup my tent on some pine needles in the Sierras that were like porcupine needles. End result - over a hundred little pin holes in the floor. Understanding that one buys a tent like this (or any other tent for that matter) to keep oneself dry and comfortable, I decided to find out what it would cost to have the tent floor replaced by Bibler. When I contacted Bibler, (the Bibler not yet bought out by Black Diamond) they said that the tent floor would be replaced in-house, with a two to three week turnaround, for around $180 dollars.

It was more than I wanted to spend at that time, so I decided to do a home repair, and setup my tent in a small pool of water and used SeamGrip to patch a many holes as I could detect leaking through. I was fortunate (backpacking mostly in Southern California and the Sierras) to never run into enough precipitation for the holes to be a factor.

Unfortunately, this August I was sad to discover that my patch job with SeamGrip wasn't quite holding up (much sadness 10 days into the John Muir Trail). So, upon my return, I decided to have the re-flooring done. When I contacted Bibler (the Bibler most definitely bought out by Black Diamond), I was told that they no longer will repair any tents, and that I would have to contact Rainy Pass Repairs in Seattle to have any repairs done. This didn't seem like that much of a problem, until I talked to Rainy Pass.

In the first phone conversation, I was quoted $400, and a 6 to 8 week turnaround. I went quite spastic, to say the least. I called Bibler / Black Diamond to inform them of this unacceptable turn of events, and luckily they agreed, and called Rainy Pass. I later received a call back from Rainy Pass, with the end result being that they would repair the tent for around $200, with a 3-6 week turnaround. After the shock of the first phone call, it seemed almost a bargain (which it really isn't considering you can buy a decent tent on sale for $200).

So I sent my tent to Rainy Pass, and waited approximately 4-5 weeks to receive my tent. When I finally received it, I was stoked - until I opened it. There was definitely something wrong. My tent now had a new tent floor made of blue ripstop nylon. That may not seem that odd, but allow me to explain.

In the Bibler catalog, and in a letter from Todd Bibler himself, there are some statements on materials, which I would like to share.

First: "The floors of all Bibler Tents are black for fast drying in the sun, even in the cold. This is important because a wet packed or stored tent is the primary cause of deterioration and mildew."

Second: "Watch out for tent floors made with coated ripstop nylon. The ridges of the tiny boxes are raised and the coating will abrade easily and cause leaks"

The bottom line is that Bibler does not make it's OEM (original) materials available to it's recommended repair shop. When I contacted Bibler, I was told that they thought that the repair job was good enough, and that there was nothing they would do. I know that there are some of you out there with a ripstop nylon floor (maybe even blue), and think that there is nothing wrong with that. Well, yes and no.

There is an expression that seems to be applicable in most every situation I can think of, and that is "A chain is only as strong as it's weakest link". If my shelter is partially made with an inferior material, do I still have the best tent that I can?

Before you answer, also be aware that the new floor material also added approximately 6-8 ounces to the weight of the tent. And also consider that I also purchased the vestibule for this tent at $125 more. After spending another $200 dollars on the repair, I have over $1000 invested in a tent that is now heavier, will dry more slowly possibly causing irreversible mildew and rot, and be more likely to develop leaks (which will inevitably be deemed wear and tear if I were ever to attempt to get it repaired under any warranty).

Would you be happy? I most definitely was not. So I decided to talk to Todd Bibler himself, as I was convinced that a man who had his name/reputation on the line would surely see my view, and have the tent re-floored with the proper material. I talked to Todd, and after a surprising amount of convincing (surprising in how much was required), he finally agreed to have the tent re-floored with the proper fabric. He told me that he would set it up with Rainy Pass, and contact me soon.

After approximately a week, he called back and informed me that they would not re-floor the tent because Rainy Pass wouldn't do the repair for free, and Bibler/Black Diamond DIDN'T WANT TO SPEND $200 to have the repair done.

I was stunned. After dealing with many other outstanding customer support policies (LL Bean, The North Face, Patagonia to name just a few), I was in awe to see a company in today's market, with such a ridiculous outlook. If I can spend over $1000 on their product (and I was also planning on buying one of their bivy sacks as well), I would damn well expect them to support me on something like this.

Well there it is: You can buy product from Bibler; it is an excellent product in itself, but just hope that you don't need any repairs done on it - you never know what you might get back.

I realize that after this incident, they may well make the materials available to Rainy Pass, but just be aware of what kind of company you're dealing with.


Peace."

"Maybe you should have sprung for the $35 ground cloth, or cleared out a spot on the ground instead of laying your $700 tent on a layer of pine needles. I think Bibler went out of their way to satisfy you even though it was clearly YOUR fault the tent had holes in it in the first place."

"I just called Bibler after I lost my stuff sack for my tri-pod bivy. They are going to find one, and send it to me for free! Nice Customer Service, nice products! Thanks Bibler!"

"Got a bivy sac tripod. Rediculously expensive, and now after seeing "Biblers" response to a customer problem, don't think I will buy that eldorado.
Of course the pine needles were his fault. All he wanted was to repair it. If I pitch my tent in a 100 mph hailstorm and damage occurs, it is my fault . . . but couldn't you REPAIR my tent, and not bitch? Congrats buddy, on your 50 cent nylon stuff sack. Marmot repairs my stuff for the cost of s & h - and yes it is my fault (afterall, the mountains are rugged now and then)."

"While I agree with Dave that Bibler's response is stingy and misses the point, I want to say that over many years, with many different products, the Black Diamond folks in SLC have been unfailingly helpful with advice, supplies, repairs, and listening to their customers, and friendly when they do it. I believe the experience noted below is a rare exception"

"First, let me say that the comments from "Bibler" were not written by someone affiliated with our company.

Customer service is the second most important part of any business right under having a quality product. I would rate our customer service a one of the best in the industry. We repair or replace all products that are damaged due to faulty design or poor workmanship, free of charge. When a product is damaged by the consumer, we do what we can to help them find an after-market repair or replacement.

I don't blame this consumer for being upset with the repair shop. The repair was sub par. However, I stand behind our policy 100%."

"Bibler was fine. We used our two-person tent in 1994 in the Alps, it leaked like a sieve. Sent it back to Bibler in the fall from Houston, where we then lived, and they repaired it, was fine in 1995. But from 1996-2000 we didn't use it. Used it again in the Alps in 2001 and it leaked a bit. Sent it to Black Diamond and they refused to honor the lifetime guarantee. I'd sooner throw a mule over my shoulder than buy anything from Black Diamond."

"Tent: Bibler Torre,[now called 'Tempest'] This tent had a seam issue on the door panel, it almost looked like it was ripping apart. I sent it back to Bibler with a letter and pictures of the problem area, and waited and waited. No response. Finally after about 3 weeks I got my tent back. the area of concern had not changed. There was no note of explaination as to what had or had not been done, or even if anyone had even LOOKED at it. After calling Bibler and tracking down someone,[anyone?],who knew about the tent, they told me that they had looked at it and felt like it would not be a problem. Fine. What really bothered me was that their was no communication from them when they recieved it or after I got it back.I wasn't even sure they had looked at it until I found some loose threads inside, indicating that someone had indeed at least set it up in the factory and dusted themselves off in the process. Hey Bibler, would 'customer service' include a phone call or a note? Guess not.

I got one of the first Torre's off the line and was ready to send pictures and a testamonial to Bibler for their catalog. I live in Alaska and had some tent/background shots that would have made a catalog cover. After the poor service I got from Bibler, nah. Can't recommend them. Too bad, so far it is a great tent although I am still eyeing the problem area with suspicion. When people see the tent, they are wowed at it's design and ease of setup. My reply is 'yeah it's a neat tent and I like it a lot'. Sooner or later though I warn them about the 'couldn't care less' customer service of Bibler. You can see the 'Hmmmm' look on their faces. I know I usually won't buy a product if there is a threat of no back-up from the manufacturer."